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| e-pea
Incredible Member (2000+ posts)
5919 Posts
Gratitude: 1353
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 Posted - 09/18/2008 : 14:53:03
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Ok.....
so what do we do about it? How can each person undo any damage Bush may have done? I agree that he sucked about 90% of the time. So what do we do in the aftermath of his presidency?
See, this is where the onus is actually on the individual who has gotten used to being part of a culture of "I want what i want when i want it." Banks began giving out loans to high risk clients who never paid them back. Many north americans have debts of 50,000 or more. I have three friends who declared bankruptcy. Our government can't control our business transactions because that would be contrary to the policies of the free world... So we each have to admit our own negative effects on the economy too.. Maybe we should all get used to living frugally a little more. Making do with a little less and not mortgaging our futures so easily.
"He who would distinguish the true from the false must have an adequate idea of what is true and false." - BENEDICT SPINOZA |
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| firebird
Amazing Member (1000+ posts)
1555 Posts
Gratitude: 584
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Posted - 09/18/2008 : 15:49:56
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I am really lucky that I dont have any "economics" that can go into recession If you dont have it, you cant lose it. . I just live to paint another day |
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| e-pea
Incredible Member (2000+ posts)
5919 Posts
Gratitude: 1353
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Posted - 09/19/2008 : 16:43:25
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well that's just it! I'm already living on borrowed money. I already live paycheck to paycheck. I have no children and my pets are not expensive. I have nothing to lose. As long as we have food in our tummies and clothes on our backs, I'm personally no worse off than I am now, ultimately. So I lose a few luxuries? Big deal. I'LL be ok.
What worries me is the people who don't deal well with loss of luxury. Because the first thing that will happen is people like that trying to take even more from people like me so they can maintain their ridiculous standards of living. You know... if wealth can trickle down, wealth can certainly be yanked back up.
But enough marx for one day.. I have a question. Is there any way to institute a new currency in an economy in severe recession? For example, why not just stage a economic coup? Just create something that has worth to at least a few other people, casual trading, you know. I'll give you this if you give me that. If it's portable enough, (say measured in 0s and 1s.. is that portable enough?) it will develop into a trading trend.. which sort of puts in place a stable economy outside the economy. But would it be possible? or am I just asking a stupid question?
"He who would distinguish the true from the false must have an adequate idea of what is true and false." - BENEDICT SPINOZA
Hi E-Pea,It already may be happening. People are starting to hoard gold and silver coins. Likewise global commerce is slowly converting over from using the American dollar to using the Euro. There is a real risk that, with the recent trillion dollar bailout of American bankers, the American dollar will be seriously devaluated. Hyper-inflation happened in Germany just before the rise of Hitler. This combination of recession and hyper-inflation ("stagflation") is the worst fear of every economist. Stagflation makes food and basic necessities unavailable to all but the rich. Stagflation is usually brought on by high government debt and over-expansion of the money supply (i.e., printing too many dollar bills). Many now argue that this is exactly what is happening in the USA. Good luck to us all E-Pea! Phil Long M.D.
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| davidt
Super Incredible Member (10000+ posts)
86214 Posts
Gratitude: 31682
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| Administrator
Administrator
15007 Posts
Gratitude: 3353
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Posted - 09/23/2008 : 00:21:16
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Is The Party Over?
It wasn't until 1954 that the DOW recovered fully from the losses that occurred after the Stock Market Crash of 1929.
As the chart above shows, the DOW almost flat-lined from 1954 to 1987 when it suddenly started to soar.
The gains on the DOW in the past 2 decades have no historical precedent. After 1987, trillions of dollars were made on wildly speculative investments made by banks, mortgage firms, and insurance firms.
Very little of the money raised on the stock markets ever found its way to creating new factories etc. The past 2 decades were simply a speculative bubble that now has burst. In its aftermath is a global mountain of debt.
As of today, the DOW has lost all the gains it has made since 1999.
Currently, we are desperately trying to cope with the subprime mortgage crisis, the collapse of "asset backed commercial paper", the ocean of credit card debt and car payment debt.
However, a much larger financial crisis is looming: the "credit default swap crisis" (which the media hasn't even started to report). This "credit default swap crisis" is estimated to be many times larger than the current subprime mortgage crisis.
I feel it is unjust that the taxpayers must bailout the greedy and stupid speculators that caused all this debt. These bankers etc. are responsible for this financial carnage; yet they walk away unscathed and dump their toxic financial waste on the rest of us.
As many have already noticed: we are privatizing profit and socializing debt. Essentially, the taxpayers are about to reward stupidity and greed by bailing out these scoundrels.
Worse still - this trillion dollar bailout isn't working. So there goes our pensions. This is so unfair.
Thank you President Bush.
Phil Long M.D.
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| firebird
Amazing Member (1000+ posts)
1555 Posts
Gratitude: 584
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Posted - 09/23/2008 : 17:45:01
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If McSame and Lipstick get in I will have to watch out it does not affect my mental health. Its bad because this last week after the crash on wall street my mood took a real dive. All the news is using words like disaster, looming crises, dire futures, calamity and yes depression. Just when I am showing artwork in NY for the first time in a week, its all doom and gloom and the markets are nervous as hell. But I know I am just one of many working hard and investing in their dreams and wondering if it will backfire. There is a lot of good people out there looking at the possibility of disappointment I don't know what to say, I just hope people use their heads, think for themselves and vote for the party that represents the real working person and their families, not the rich elites. The future looks bleak, that's for sure and that really can impact our mental health. We just have to hold fast to our loved ones and our friends, helping and sharing. If we have to make do with less, whether its things or big dreams, so be it. Together this is a challenge we can endure when we have each other.
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| Administrator
Administrator
15007 Posts
Gratitude: 3353
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Posted - 09/24/2008 : 21:45:04
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(Please don't read this if you are depressed by talk of a pending economic meltdown.)
At Last, The Media Is Starting To Talk About The Next Big Crisis
The media is finally starting to talk about the possibility of an economic meltdown far more serious than the present subprime mortgage crisis.
The next economic crisis is about the massive debt in the "credit-default swap" area of the financial market.
In the USA, the value of the "credit-default swaps" market stands at $58-62 trillion, yet this market is regulated by no one. The Bush administration passed a law in 2000 that totally deregulated this massive market.
The growing concern now on Wall Street is that many "credit-default swaps" are soon to be in default, and this will expose banks, mortgage houses and the bond market to trillions of dollars of bad debt. The amount of this bad debt will be many times larger than the current subprime mortgage debt.
If this massive debt surfaces, as many now predict, there is absolutely no way that the US government could bail out a debt this large.
All these financial disasters directly trace their origins back to the Bush administration's decision back in 2000 to deregulate financial markets.
Future historians will record that this decision in 2000 was the greatest single mistake any US President ever made. You don't have to take my word on this; just watch the global economic meltdown over the next few months.
Phil Long M.D.
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| Administrator
Administrator
15007 Posts
Gratitude: 3353
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Posted - 09/27/2008 : 11:37:34
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(Please don't read this if you are depressed by talk of a pending economic meltdown.)
Did Narcissism Bring About This Economic Meltdown?
As a psychiatrist, I think there is something we all must learn from this pending economic meltdown.
I believe that the scandalous reckless behavior on Wall Street that brought about this meltdown is symptomatic of the very narcissistic culture that flourished on Wall Street.
What Are The Main Traits Of Narcissism?
- Arrogance:
The financial leaders on Wall Street all thought of themselves as invincible and masters of finance. They wanted unlimited power, and successfully lobbied for deregulation of their financial markets. The result was that no one had the legislative power to rein in their ruinous financial arrogance. They literally played by their own rules.
- Intimidation:
The financial leaders on Wall Street have repeatedly bullied the taxpayers to bail them out of their financial disasters. Last winter, many of the world's central banks had to "loan" Wall Street $200 billion at the beginning of the subprime credit crisis. In return for this "loan", Wall Street gave their toxic mortgages to the central banks as collateral. In August 2008, Wall Street again intimidated the central banks to give them another $250 billion using the same collateral. Now, in September, President Bush is giving Congress 72 hours to cough up another $700 billion bailout for Wall Street.
These arrogant financial leaders on Wall Street always use the same means to intimidate the taxpayer. Each time they ask for a bailout from the central banks; they threaten global economic collapse if the taxpayers (i.e., the central banks) didn't give them their bailout.
These financial leaders on Wall Street never offer to trade shares in their banks etc. for the requested bailout. Instead, all they offer is to give the taxpayer their toxic debt (i.e., the worthless mortgages) in exchange for the bailout.
These financial leaders have never apologized to the taxpayers for destroying our financial system. All they ever say is "give us a bailout or the economy will collapse". This is just straight fear-mongering and intimidation.
- Selfishness:
The salaries of these financial leaders on Wall Street were obscene. They lived lavishly while foreclosing on the homes on hundreds of thousands of Americans.
These financial leaders don't want the government to pass any new regulations that would prevent their immoral business practices. Basically, they just want the government to absorb their losses, and then let them continue to practice the same corrupt financial practices that have destroyed our economy. This highly narcissistic Wall Street culture must be corrected before our economic system can be cured.
Phil Long M.D.
Administrator
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| e-pea
Incredible Member (2000+ posts)
5919 Posts
Gratitude: 1353
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Posted - 09/27/2008 : 13:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Administrator
These arrogant financial leaders on Wall Street always use the same means to intimidate the taxpayer. Each time they ask for a bailout from the central banks; they threaten global economic collapse if the taxpayers (i.e., the central banks) didn't give them their bailout.
These financial leaders on Wall Street never offer to trade shares in their banks etc. for the requested bailout. Instead, all they offer is to give the taxpayer their toxic debt (i.e., the worthless mortgages) in exchange for the bailout.
These financial leaders have never apologized to the taxpayers for destroying our financial system. All they ever say is "give us a bailout or the economy will collapse". Thus all they practice is intimidation.[/*]
When you say threaten global economic collapse do you mean threaten to bring it about purposefully? or warn that their downfall will inevitably bring it on?
700 billion dollars is a lot of money..
i would join some kind of underground resistance if I could just figure out which side makes me angrier.
"He who would distinguish the true from the false must have an adequate idea of what is true and false." - BENEDICT SPINOZA
Hi E-Pea,Thanks for your contributions in this thread. What I meant is that the Wall Street financial leaders were just fear-mongering. I didn't mean to imply that they would purposely destroy the economy. I just meant to imply that they used scare tactics to intimidate the taxpayers. Phil Long M.D.
Administrators |
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| firebird
Amazing Member (1000+ posts)
1555 Posts
Gratitude: 584
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Posted - 09/27/2008 : 14:05:49
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If I may put out this unusual idea of mine. If we look at peoples behavior in our world, through the lens of psychiatry, it would be quite illuminating. For instance, if we divided people up into personality types and disorders we could say that war is made by the sociopaths, paranoids and greed and corruption is perpetuated by the narcissists Everyone else suffers through them. Is not the survival of the human race dependant on all the other personalities diminishing the anti socials, paranoids and narcissists Given that the view that personality disorders are genetic, is not the real war we have to wage a genetic war. (I do NOT mean racial, as all the personality disorders are equally spread throughout the different racial peoples of the world). The kind of people we want to be and the kind of society we want to live in and even our very survival depends on winning the war over those with those genes
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| firebird
Amazing Member (1000+ posts)
1555 Posts
Gratitude: 584
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Posted - 09/27/2008 : 14:57:23
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Here is a good link to a site called Ponerology: The science of the study of Evil. From the Greek word for evil.
http://ponerology.blogspot.com/2007_02_04_archive.html
And here is a brilliant article about our present dominate psychopathic culture,how we are programmed, how we are forced to follow it to survive and why we must study sociopathy in order to discover its achillies heel and neutralize it.
Laura Knight-Jadczyk, Official Culture in America: A Natural State of Psychopathy?.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm |
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| e-pea
Incredible Member (2000+ posts)
5919 Posts
Gratitude: 1353
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Posted - 09/28/2008 : 11:21:52
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Thank you for hearing me.. This isn't an easy time.. We have enough money. We're not really hurting for money but we have debt too. We're afraid. we're not afraid of losing a little money but we are afraid of losing our livelihood. I have less experience than others. I'd be the first to go. A lot of people are in the same position as I am. so... it's something i've been thinking about a lot..
"He who would distinguish the true from the false must have an adequate idea of what is true and false." - BENEDICT SPINOZA |
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| Administrator
Administrator
15007 Posts
Gratitude: 3353
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Posted - 09/28/2008 : 14:05:50
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(Please don't read this if you are depressed by talk of a pending economic meltdown.)
This Is The First Time In My Life I've Felt This Nervous
I once prided myself on being fearless.
In my youth I went through the terrifying "Hell's Gate Rapids" on the Fraser River in a 2 man raft, and I have been on many cliff ledges with my friends that we should have never been on. We were too young to see the danger ahead, but somehow we survived.
However, as I get older, I can now see farther ahead in time.
Now this "gift" of foresight is starting to backfire. For the first time in my life, in the last 3 days I have experienced persistent anxiety.
Unfortunately, I believe that President Bush's deregulation of financial markets back in 2000 has finally triggered a global economic meltdown. I predict this financial meltdown will get much worse in the next few weeks.
- I think of all my patients who are totally dependent on their government disability pensions. There is no guarantee that these government pension funds can withstand a global economic meltdown.
- I think of my friends who are heavily mortgaged or in debt. They will not be able to handle their debt when the interest rates soar to 23% (as they did in the recession of 1981).
- I think of my own savings. Although my family is out of the stock market, our life savings are in cash. Once inflation hits, our cash will be effectively devalued. Thus there goes a large part of my life's savings.
Initially, I was very angry at the speculators who brought about this economic crisis.
Now my anger has turned to anxiety. For the first time in my life, I realize that I am totally helpless.
Warren Buffet, the world's second richest man, yesterday warned that we may be on the verge of "the biggest financial meltdown in American history" ( http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/economy/Buffett.bailout/?postversion=2008092811 ).
We are about to witness the enormous economic suffering caused by a few greedy, stupid leaders of government and finance.
(Useful Information)
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7302341.stm
P.S. Did you know that Sen. John McCain and his wife have an estimated net worth of nearly $100 million? ( http://www.nndb.com/people/914/000023845/#FN2 )
Phil Long M.D.
Administrator
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| e-pea
Incredible Member (2000+ posts)
5919 Posts
Gratitude: 1353
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| Administrator
Administrator
15007 Posts
Gratitude: 3353
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Posted - 09/29/2008 : 22:04:14
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We are now witnessing history in the making.
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How To Cope With An Economic Recession
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